David Robertson recently blogged about the recent Unite the Kingdom March, or more specifically about the response of some prominent church leaders to it via an open letter in the Times. I wrote privately initially to David sharing my thoughts in response to the article. However, as our correspondence went on, I thought it might be helpful to publish it as an example of what I consider to have been a healthy conversation on the subject. I’m publishing this with David’s knowledge and consent. I hope it is helpful.
Hi David,
I thought it might be best to write personally initially. I was really grieved by your open letter today. Perhaps there have been misunderstandings along the way.
I did not sign the letter. I don’t for all kinds of reasons sign that kind of thing and there wasn’t wider opportunity to do so. I do agree with it though it falls short of the crux of the matter. I also believe that there should have been more said about other matches. I’ve spoken up on the post October 7th Marches. I have written responding to the Tommy Robinson march and its use of Christian symbols as well as its bringing of people who professed Christian faith onto its platform.
The march came in the context of a summer of organised groups putting flags up in lampposts and pickers outside asylum hostels. In our own church, we have had people for whom this has led to a sense of anxiety and fear. Maybe that is subjective but we need to at least recognize it. I also know people and know of people who have faced physical attack and racist abuse.
The crux of the matter is the underlying ideology of the march organisers and those involved publicly including a few who claim to be Christian pastors and leaders. The ideology has sometimes been labelled as far right, sometimes as fascism. I understand some people may struggle with those names for whatever reason. The point is that it is an ethno- cultural nationalism . This goes against the Gospel. It is idolatrous, offering a false god and false gospel. That is why you cannot coopt Gospel symbols into pagan worship. Perhaps have a watch of the videos from key “Christian proponents” It’s disturbing, based on untruths, misreading of Scripture and includes claims of prophecy that are without evidence.
David, I would urge you to reconsider this article.
Yours in Jesus name
Dave
Thanks for this Dave.
I am sorry that you were grieved. I was deeply grieved at the open letter I was responding to.
I would be happy to reconsider the article – or anything in it which is wrong. So I simply ask you to point out anything in my letter which was wrong – and I will happily withdraw it and apologise for it.
I’m afraid that I don’t live in the kind of binary world where you are either one thing or another. Thats why I warned about the dangers of Christian nationalism in the letter. Personally, I wouldn’t have gone on that march (although I know several who did and who loved it) – and I don’t think Christian symbols should be used in politics. I’m not a big fan of Christian symbols anyway! Furthermore, I think that there is a real danger from real racists, far right etc. However, the open letter will not only do nothing to stop that I think it will encourage it. Once you start telling people that their legitimate concerns are far right some will think – well why not…if they are going to call me that I might as well embrace it.
I too have had people experience physical attack – I started a whole ministry to Asians because I saw a young Pakistani boy being beat up. I have personally been attacked once by far right – but many times more by far left – which is much the greater danger (although the two are akin). For the church to warn about the one – but not the other – is hypocritical and harmful.
The open letter was ill advised, harmful and will cause further disunity in the kingdom of God. It was unwise and wrong for evangelicals to sign it. It will just further the impression that the evangelical leadership is middle class, patronising and in general just reflects the values of the culture with a Christian tinge…
David
Thanks David,
Yes I can see those specific issues. I wonder if it is simply a case of up front making explicitly clear what the issues with ethno-cultural nationalism is and being explicit that we cannot unite with that.
I think it would in turn give context to the things you raise. Indeed, doesn’t that strengthen the point? I fear that one of the issues is that Christian leaders here in the UK still don’t get the seriousness of this. It is seen as being just about some right-wing agitators being present. In that respect you are right that marches will always attract trouble. If that, then maybe you can be cobelligerent with others but if it is opposing a dangerous false god we cannot co-opt others or be co-opted. I am wondering if I should write something to that effect myself? What do you think?
One other area of pushback, this is more a discussion point and I may raise it in your comments if that is okay. I’m not so sure re your middle-class v working-class point. I haven’t picked up much enthusiasm from working-class estate people for Tommy Robinson type stuff here in the Midlands. It will be there in some areas but lots of estate people would be just as anti that kind of thing and have no time for “hot heads”. I agree that we should watch out for the tendency to patronise. The best solution of course which I’ve been saying all week is not to take a crucifix on a march but to live among people, get to know them, plant and revitalize churches etc. Then it’s not about having to go on a march to get an audience. You are actually in a position to say to them. “I don’t think we should join in that. Here’s why.”. Tellingly the Christians promoting participation seem to be graduates and even wn old Etonian!
Well, I’ll leave it with you to look at. It’s coming to the end of the day here.
Yours in him
Dave
Dave,
I agree about the ‘co-belligerence’…..which is why I objected to the evangelicals signing that letter!
Re the middle-class/working-class – I’m sure that varies. Things are not usually so simple. Personally, I find it rare to find working class people enthusiastic about any politician. However, the big issue here is the fact that in general the privileged, wealthy and middle class are far more likely to be socialists (in the modern progressive sense, rather than the sense I was).
I totally agree about your comments on going on a march – if you are doing it for evangelism. But if you want to go on the march because you agree with cause – go for it.
There is a reason that the middle class leadership in the churches have generally failed to connect with working class people – part of it is associating Christianity with nice middle class (largely now progressive) values….
David
Thanks David,
Yes I would agree with you there. You may see that I’ve now written about the problems with co-signing the letter. To be honest I tend not to sign round robin letters partly because of this and partly because you end up with a situation where people you have to sign to things you wouldn’t want to say.
I recently was asked to sign a petition to make abortion illegal from first sign of heartbeat. Now I want to see an end to abortion but recognise there may have to be pragmatic steps. However, I think the heartbeat approach (which in fact takes you down to 6 weeks) is both unlikely to be accepted and it unfortunately shifts the debate into the wrong ground if suggesting there is a point when abortion might be permissible.
Back to working class contexts. The irony is that (and this may vary from place to place), I don’t find UTK has much traction. Indeed, it is probably talked about more by the middle class. Even the flags are a kind of thing that appears. Individuals don’t rush to put them up. Working class don’t mind a flag or too but do dislike it being imposed and definitely don’t want more vandalism.
Perhaps we even are taking a risk by giving oxygen to something that might not have registered for many. I don’t think we are going to get a Tommy Robinson uprising. I’ve weighed it up and my concern would be more about what is left unsaid and its impact on Christian thinking. That’s both that we fail to address an ideology and simultaneously that people sneer and snigger at the flags.
Yours in him
Dave
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