One of the ways in which elders take responsibility for providing and protecting is by recruiting well, whether that is into a leadership position in the church from within, such as appointing additional elders and ministry leaders or it is recruiting people to join the staff team including a paid pastor.
Now, I have come to the view that often we do best to recruit staff from within the church but there is a benefit to looking to bring people in from outside as they will bring fresh ideas and vision. So, if you are recruiting from outside, how do you go about i?
First, I think there’s something to be said for a relational approach. So, even if you are bringing an external person in, there’s huge benefit in having some prior connection whether directly with them or because they are known to others that you trust and respect and are happy to go with their judgement. This doesn’t mean that you don’t just go with their recommendation without doing due diligence yourself of course.
Second, if you need to advertise, it is helpful to think about where you are advertising because different magazines and websites will have different audiences that will often align roughly with their theology. It is worth saying too that you need to know where you align, what is your theology and even beyond first order issues what are your priorities, values, customs and practices. You can then review the types of candidates that are coming in. If you spot that overwhelmingly the types of people coming to you don’t really fit with what you were looking for then it is possible that:
- You are looking in the wrong place. Look again at where you are advertising.
- That your advert, job specification and church profile are not worded clearly enough.
This brings me back to something that should be happening before you advertise or start talking to people, whether or not you are using a more formal process. Take time to sit down and think about the church, where it has come from, where it is now and where you would like it to be heading in the future. This becomes the basis for a church profile. Make sure that you are honest and accurate in your profile. It’s best to stay clear from fluffy statements and to go with facts and figures, how many people attend, are in membership, what are the age profiles, what’s the situation in terms of giving, when did you last have a baptism, how many funerals are there each year? Accompany this by pictures that give a feel for the life of the church. Make sure that when you are talking about the present situation that you describe the church as it really is now, stay clear from aspirational statements, you may want to be welcoming, diverse, lively etc but don’t claim to be what you are not. Save the aspirational stuff for talking about where you would like to be.
This means that before calling someone in, you need to have some honest discussions with each other. Even if you are not going to put it into writing in the profile, you still need to be ready to be open with candidates about where the challenges are. Make sure you know them and agree on them. By the way, I don’t think that it is fair to either yourselves as leaders, the congregation or the candidates to assume that they will come in and make decisions on things you currently are divided on whether that’s style of worship, the role of men and women, gifts of the Spirit or whatever. You need to get those things sorted in advance and yes, that might mean that some people need to recognise that the church is going to go in a different direction that what they would prefer. This may mean that they are willing to have a go at working with that change of direction (or continuing direction), or they may need to step down from leadership and even move churches. It should be possible to do this well and part on good terms.
Don’t rush things, even if it is a formal interview style process, you are still seeking to build relationships. You are not just recruiting an employee but welcoming someone to play a significant part in the family. They ate going to live their life with you, they are going to walk with you through joy and trials. They will be there for you when you are suffering, they may need you to be there with them in their suffering. What for example if your pastor is hit by depression? A good relationship will go a long way. Your pastor may be the one who buries you and is there for your family in their bereavement. You may, have to bury them and care for their family, grieving with them.
Not rushing means that it is okay to turn down all candidates. Better to be without a pastor than have the wrong person as pastor, for you and for them. It also means taking your time through the process. Even secular employment processes will often include at least two meetings with candidates. There is a process of whittling down. In pastoral ministry, I would encourage you to do the following.
- Invite them for interview
- Arrange to spend time with them socially as a leadership team such as over a meal.
- Invite them back for a second interview to go into more detail
- At this stage invite them to preach.
- Given them the opportunity to meet the church family and answer their questions
- Welcome them back to spend more time with you and the church and to see more of the community around you.
What should you talk about at interview? Well what you are looking for is evidence of character, competence and compatibility. Character is about whether or not they fit with the requirements Paul sets out to Timothy and Titus. This may not be something you can easily draw out in interview but there are questions you can ask and you can observe how they engage throughout.
Competency is about gifting. Remember that primarily you are looking for someone who is able to teach though there are other gifts you will be looking for too. Able to teach though, doesn’t just mean that they have the charisma to speak to an audience and hold their attention. It also means being able to teach the right things. So they need to be sound in both doctrine and ethical application. You will need to cover those things in interview. What do they believe about the central doctrines? Are they Trinitarian? Do they believe in the authority of Scripture? Do they know who Jesus is and why we came, dies and rose again? What is their understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit? Do they have any fanciful ideas and views when it comes to eschatology? This means that you as elders need to know your theology too but it may also mean that it is helpful to bring trusted people into the conversation who may be sharper/more attuned on these things.
It’s not just about what we believe though because what we believe affects how we live. So, ask them about their position on the big hitters, gender and sexuality, beginning and end of life, divorce and remarriage.
Competency brings together gifting, training and experience. So, whether in secular or church contexts. I’m always looking for them to show evidence of thei won experience. This comes out best unprompted both in application letters and in interview. Look for unprompted, concrete examples.
Compatibility is important because in the end, they may be gifted, they may be of good character but not the right fit for you. Partly this is about observing again and seeing whether or not you get on. This includes recognising that times will come when you will disagree. Will you be able to disagree well. Do you think you could be challenged and corrected by them? Would they be willing and able to be corrected by you? There are also questions to ask here too. This is where localised scenarios help. How would they approach this or that scenario?
Now, one thing we are nervous about is that a candidate can put on a good show for interview and when they preach with a view. Is there a risk that we will be taken in by fine words? To be fair, this can happen to anyone even with the most robust of processes. I know of good churches where the leaders were anything but naïve and the later came to regret their appointments (as I suspect did those appointed).
However, there are things you can do to protect here. First, think about the kinds of questions you will ask in interview. Don’t just settle foe “do you agree with our statement of faith?” Push deeper, what do they think about specific issues. Sometimes it can be helpful tp push them on controversies, where they would have to take a side. Use scenarios to see how they respond to specific situations and again listen out to see if they can offer evidence and examples unprompted.
Let me give you an example or two of real life examples from ministry. On one occasion, I visited an elderly man in hospital. I asked him if he wanted me to read with him from Scripture. He said “Yes.” I asked him if there was a passage he would like read. He said “something from Deuteronomy. I’ve never heard that book, so start at the beginning.” What would your candidate do in that situation? His answer will tell you a lot both about his pastoral instincts but also about his theology, specifically his attitude to the Old Testament.
On another occasion, I was approached by one of our ESOL class teachers. She was disturbed to walk into the photocopier room and finding one of the Muslim class members prostrate, saying their prayers. What would your candidate advise? Their answer will tell you something about their theology of religion and as well as their pastoral demeanor something about their alertness to mission.
Secondly, don’t be afraid to ask the difficult questions up front and early and to be open about where you are concerned to be an issue. “Thank you so much for coming to interview today. We loved your CV and have heard good things about you. There is one thing though that gives us pause for thought. We understand that your current church takes x position and that would be very different to where we would be. Could you talk us through your understanding of this issue.”
Thirdly, listen to others. This is why those relationships are important. Take seriously what those who know you and know them have to say. Just as you want to pay attention to someone saying “this person would be great for you.” You also want to heed the warnings too.
Fourth, there is plenty of objective evidence available these days. You don’t just have to take a punt based on a good interview and a one off outstanding preach. In education, when schools are inspected or lessons observed, the word used to describe how the person does is “typicality.” Have they just turned on the performance for the moment or is this typical of what they would normally be like.
Incidentally, this meant that on one occasion when I spoke at a church, I got feedback afterwards that they weren’t so sure about proceeding and wondered if I would come back and preach again. Now, I already wasn’t so sure myself that this was the right fit from both sides but also, I felt that what they had heard from my preaching was typical of a normal sermon from me. They weren’t going to hear anything different in a follow up. Further, whilst of course there was plenty of scope for improvement in my preaching and always will be, I would have argued that what and how I preached that Sunday was what was needed. So, I declined the opportunity to go back as, whatever the assessment of my competence was, I don’t think that compatibility was there,
Anyway, back to the objective evidence. Most candidates these days will have an online footprint. You can go and look them up on social media. You can read their blogs you can watch their sermons on YouTube. You will also know where their previous church stands on big issues. All of that will help you to know both if they have their “interview sermon” and whether or not they are giving you straight answers. Of course, if you see stuff that stands out and rings alarm bells, then don’t call them for interview in the first place. And you can uninvite someone if issues come to your attention between inviting them and the day.
It’s worth saying that this is a two-way process. Will you have them and will they have you. Be prepared for them to challenge and question you too. Don’t be afraid or embarrassed if the fit is wrong. This doesn’t mean that they aren’t gifted nor does it mean that yours is a terrible church. It simply means that you weren’t right for each other. This includes when they turn you down. It also means that sometimes they are relieved to get a “no” from you. I remember one church where I went for interview and said to the moderator afterwards “I’m not the right person for them. I wouldn’t serve them well.” They insisted though that they wanted me to go back and preach. But finally the right conclusion was made and I believe they’ve got the right person for them now.
This also means that sometimes the candidate won’t be the right fit for you but they may be able to offer input and advice. They may even be able to recommend and link you up with the right person. This means that the process is not a waste. Finally, if you get the right process in place then to some extent, you can trust the process. Trust your instincts too. I think there is a sense in which both sides will know. This means that even if things look good on paper, I think it’s best to curtail things if there are doubts on either side. More importantly, trust God and his sovereignty.
Faithroots 